People forgot these heartland 'pit town clubs' are where we actually produce players. They are little 'hot beds' of rugby league. Erect a team in north america, and it's made up of players from these areas.



It's all bollox.

Your link is broken.

Bit like the north american "expansion" plans.

So the fact that you're currently in lockdown means nothing.



You know there is a reason why no one has come out publicly and celebrated the demise of Toronto. It's only you and a couple of your mates who find this news good and the fact that you only have to travel x amount of miles to the next club.

One of what?

There never were any such plans, Argyle just wanted a club in Toronto to muck about with whilst he got a foothold in his beloved NRL.



Perez provided it on the back of a potential RL world cup in North America. Even Mr. Moore who had the job of promoting this was scathing about the Canadian nonsense.



Too many people in the game are frightened to speak out against pie in the SKY hairbrained "expansion" schemes for fear of being called insular and parochial.

1) The Rugby League World Cup was never staged there.The guy who planned to promote it ran into financial distress.I believe the last RL World Cup staged in England lost money.

2) Proof,perhaps,that there is some intelligent life in the other code.Certainly in the administration ,and publicity,and choice of commentators over recent years.It also seems their school involvement is decent.

3 ) More money was spent by Toronto in the last 4 years than by any M62 club.

TWP has not been for sale.The M62 club named Hull Kingston Rovers seems difficult to sell...as I type.

3) With no reserves playing in 2021 and so few academies it don't appear too good in Good Ol' Blighty,either.

The use by M62 clubs of overseas players and head coaches may also give the appearance that after 125 years of all things being great with M62 and all things rugby league - that perhaps a myopia pandemic has struck the M62 area and no vaccine has been discovered ,yet.

Love the conspiracy theory.

lets get this straight I do not celebrate the fact that Toronto has fallen, the fact that you and your mates have been shown that this ridiculus idea shows how little thought has been put into what could go wrong yet you still go on to bleat on as its going to take over the americas,

well I've news for you your in denile which is probally why



now take time to reflect on what this has done to the players of both Toronto and Ottawa, imagine your self in their position it may help

Nice try

The lack of interest in the Denver test led the game to abandon North America. It was the games tester for both potential fans and investors.

He's pulling your chain like the other guy's trying (but failing) with me, and he will have a big smile on his face as you bit.





Always go back to basics. It's on you tube Perez promises North American pro-players "pretty quickly" and NATV riches.



Not one player and not one cent were apparent in year 4 by which time Argyle had his chance for Melbourne Storm.



Problem is the whole of the RL press, two weekly rags and several monthly mags fell for it all big time and are never going to admit it hence all the "lost opportunity" articles and the "Covid stole my expansion" bleating

Did you celebrate TWP pushing London out?

Would you have celebrated Ottawa and New York pushing Wakefield and Huddersfield out

And then Boston and Montreal pushing Castleford and Salford out at which time the SKY deal would have been pulled? They want English clubs...



At which time five squads of players from here would have been regularly flying over there to North America to pretend to be "expansion"



Do you think NATV would have paid good money to watch that? And if they would have done don't you think there would have been an North America league set up and all our players would have gone to that????



The whole thing was never "expansion" the plan was to ship half the game over there, Perez spoke in the RL press about how "5-6 North American clubs in Superleague would have got a massive NATV deal"



If so why would Perez stop at five or six. Ship the whole game over to North America??

Get your facts correct. London weren't pushed out, they were relegated.

You do know that Sky is no longer owned by that Aussie chap Murdoch,anymore,don't you?

Those chaps and chapesses in the USA actually own Sky.

It now seems all they want - is to pay less for the ' entertainment ' provided by Super League clubs.The majority of which,are English.

That bastion of fair play,from the M62,Maurice Lindsay,elected to out English clubs for a club from France that lasted less than 12 months.

Promotion by off-field matters returns.

Round and round in ever decreasing circles...

Which clubs do offer something to the game then, and which ones don't and why not ?

What about the championship/league one clubs who receive pence from the UK Sky deal.

Do they not offer anything to the game, because they take very little from it ?

Every club over here offers something to the game simply by being semi-pro or professional.



For me I think it a great idea to engage in debates and where a more comprehensive proposal is offered for debate.



Proposals for a debate like [i"all the M62 clubs are dinosaurs - discuss" [/i may not be worthy of such discussion.

Your chum,Lenagan,doesn't think clubs below Super League deserve any money from a broadcast deal and doesn't want them semi-professional.



He'd rather waste money on a club crest depicting a figure from the time of colonialism and slavery.



Very woke - Not! ...and forward thinking.



The sport is in safe hands with him and his football mate,Elstone.

Water off a ducks back pal



we're still awaiting his apology from him getting it so wrong

Seem to recall that, following the much trumpeted, N America-wide trials, TWP took on four players. None played a game and all were released a year or so later. Completely cynical.









As you know, Snowie, men like that never apologise unless it be in the form of "I'm sorry, BUT..."



Happen to be well acquainted with Leigh's shirt sponsor of the early '90s. He is a self-made multi-millionaire. Felt obliged to buy and read a copy of his auto-biography when it was released. It should have been BILLed as an auto-hagiography! Doesn't take you through the ups and downs of the road to riches. He doesn't analyse the failures, he doesn't apologise for them, he has simply expunged them from his memory. Would have made a great sports psychologist.



If anyone is expecting an explanation or apology from Perez then SORRY, but he's forgotten.

The trials didn't really turn anyone up at all, it was just a stunt. However a couple of USARL players were taken on as was a young Canadian lad Ngwati who played Union but could play league, their purpose was to pretend a player development system was in place. As you say player development was forgotten about, and the promised NATV deals were dismissed as only possible once half of Superleague was North American



When TWP gained promotion they were pushed hard on these major issues, and it was McDermott who was sent out to make the excuses that we could not expect NA players and TV deals so soon. McDermott continues to make these excuses and claim that North America is still ripe for expanding to. Apparently Sadler has given him a platform to carry on insisting North America is the future in tomorrows League express.



It clearly is not. Fair play to League Express though, Garry Schofield has a column in league Express in which he replies to all the North American nonsense as such. Sadler disagrees with Schofield. Whilst Schofield can point to the evidence of RL's failures there and RU's successes Sadler can't point to anything to uphold his view that North America is a no brainer and ripe for RL expansion.



Something he has said many times but never explained......

Quote Donnyman="Donnyman"The trials didn't really turn anyone up at all, it was just a stunt. However a couple of USARL players were taken on as was a young Canadian lad Ngwati who played Union but could play league, their purpose was to pretend a player development system was in place. As you say player development was forgotten about, and the promised NATV deals were dismissed as only possible once half of Superleague was North American When TWP gained promotion they were pushed hard on these major issues, and it was McDermott who was sent out to make the excuses that we could not expect NA players and TV deals so soon. McDermott continues to make these excuses and claim that North America is still ripe for expanding to. Apparently Sadler has given him a platform to carry on insisting North America is the future in tomorrows League express. It clearly is not. Fair play to League Express though, Garry Schofield has a column in league Express in which he replies to all the North American nonsense as such. Sadler disagrees with Schofield. Whilst Schofield can point to the evidence of RL's failures there and RU's successes Sadler can't point to anything to uphold his view that North America is a no brainer and ripe for RL expansion. Something he has said many times but never explained......'" Cheers, Donnyman, saved Bongser a few bob this week (sorry Tesco but every little helps). Your reply has awakened a dim memory of a sign-up player getting a token 10-20 minute run out. Your scrapbook seems much better so please confirm/deny. No mention in the below retrieve from the home debut of "The First FORMERLY Trans-Atlantic Rugby League Team" that reads as a Who's Who of Leigh players past and present (is there a "Future-Past tense"?"icon_wink.gif: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/toronto-wolfp ... -1.4103239 Yep, still bitter!

Quote Donnyman="Donnyman"The trials didn't really turn anyone up at all, it was just a stunt. However a couple of USARL players were taken on as was a young Canadian lad Ngwati who played Union but could play league, their purpose was to pretend a player development system was in place. As you say player development was forgotten about, and the promised NATV deals were dismissed as only possible once half of Superleague was North American When TWP gained promotion they were pushed hard on these major issues, and it was McDermott who was sent out to make the excuses that we could not expect NA players and TV deals so soon. McDermott continues to make these excuses and claim that North America is still ripe for expanding to. Apparently Sadler has given him a platform to carry on insisting North America is the future in tomorrows League express. It clearly is not. Fair play to League Express though, Garry Schofield has a column in league Express in which he replies to all the North American nonsense as such. Sadler disagrees with Schofield. Whilst Schofield can point to the evidence of RL's failures there and RU's successes Sadler can't point to anything to uphold his view that North America is a no brainer and ripe for RL expansion. Something he has said many times but never explained......'" Cheers, Donnyman, saved Bongser a few bob this week (sorry Tesco but every little helps). Your reply has awakened a dim memory of a sign-up player getting a token 10-20 minute run out. Your scrapbook seems much better so please confirm/deny. No mention in the below retrieve from the home debut of "The First FORMERLY Trans-Atlantic Rugby League Team" that reads as a Who's Who of Leigh players past and present (is there a "Future-Past tense"?"icon_wink.gif: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/toronto-wolfp ... -1.4103239 Yep, still bitter!

Ryan Burroughs was signed from USARL (North Virginia) Tom Dempsey was a Canada RL player, there was Quin Ngwati and then Joe Eichner from Florida who got in on a "trial", Dempsey sat on the bench for 3 matches, Ngwati the Canada RL poster boy sat on the bench for two matches. Eichner sat on the bench for one match, however Ryan Burroughs got 8 starts and scored four tries.



Once the £2Million side had trampled over Hemel, South Wales, Coventry and Gloucester to gain promotion it was time to sack them off and assemble a English/Antipodean Superleague team. Over the following years player development was dismissed as "it will take time". Bob Jowett of canada RL (who is moaning now

) was upset Argylle didn't even pay the $10 dollars or whatever to join Canada RL There were reports that Argyle whose Rugby mates in Canada were all Union men, actually made a donation to Junior Rugby Union development.



Currently people like Mr. Sadler, Mr. McDermott and if he was still publishing Danny Lockwood are saying that this was a massive missed opportunity. They really should know better and should accept that "expansion" in North America never really happened. A $$$Billionaire assembled an English/Aussie SL side and spent his way over the heads of the Championships to get in Superleague then after Melbourne presented him with an opportunity to get into the NRL he abandoned TWP mid season.



All the silly nonsense between Livolsi and Elstone was just posturing, All Livolsi wanted was an outlet for his appalling "Wolf Grooming" the long drawn out investigation into the viability of Pro-RL in North America was pointless, that was lost when MLR formed, and confirmed when the RL World cup in America was pulled.

That must be a helluva scrapbook, Donnyman. Cheers

Apology for what?

It's all on record mate and a pleasure to set that straight.



It really does certain people no favours when they wax lyrical about Toronto Wolfpack whether they own or coach the club itself, whether they publish an RL mag or just post anonymously on a RL forum. Every man jack of them conveniently forgets what the plan was. North American Players and North American TV deals. Those were the two things that were promised and the two measures of ultimate success.



The "scrapbook" also contains a report in which Perez was challenged on the lack of a TV deal and he said that it would come once half of Superleague contained North American clubs who could attract such a deal. The fact was that Superleauge's own SKY TV deal would have been pulled long before that as SKY needed nine English clubs and of course Catalans are not English. That meant there was no point TWP going forward.



Total Silence.com then ensued.....



Then there was the issue of developing Canadian players something journo's did "lightly" push. Again that was kicked down the road ultimately by McDermott who said we had to be patient it could take 20 years.......The whole of the RL journalist family let him off with that one. They knew the plan was grid iron converts that didn't work at all.



Ultimately it wasn't that the the plan failed to find a single player, the plan never got past TWP joining Canada RL to start development. Then the plan started to knock real clubs out of SL (London) then line up two more NA clubs to ship another 60 players from here to North America, and had they both got to Superleague scupper the SKY deal. But I don't blame Perez for having a go, especially as those who run the game showed him so much subservience with Rimmer letting him get away with unveiling Ottawa as a concept but failing to unveil any backers Even New York managed to put forward a backer who intended to put £100K in, not that you could get to Superleague on that.



Just this last week or two Editors and Journo's are blotting their copy books claiming the 10,000 crowds were a great success. How many paid?, how many stayed in the beer tents?, how many started their own teams? They don't say......



I'm "afraid" that those who run the game were themselves "afraid" to call any of this stuff out. Same for the scores of so called "fans" who still continue to post about developing clubs all over the globe (and close to home with a recent call for a club in Plymouth/Portsmouth....Why? because the Navy's RL team is based there)