Under the old top 5 system, most definitely yes. Under the current top 8 system, absolutely not in any way, shape or form. The best team, in the best form, with the least disruption injury-wise come September will win at O/T this season whether they eventually finish the season in 1st or in 8th. Fact. If you think that the current system offers any appreciable advantage to the teams finishing higher up the table then you're self-deluding as it simply doesn't - last year proved that utterly incontrovertibly once and for all.



Saints need no better than a top 8 finish and they will achieve that without hardly needing to bother turning up at all between now and August. Expending any excess energy in trying to achieve a successful league campaign will be monumental mistake for any team.



Anyway, I look forward to the annual knee-jerk cries of woe and disaster from all and sundry when we're 5th or 6th in the league in June after losing a couple of games to Wakefield and Hull KR or whoever, and all the calls for the coach's head and desperate pleas for us to drop half the team and sign up all of Blackbrook's players to replace them so that they will at least "show some pride in the shirt"... I always enjoy those... Fact is we've as good a chance as anyone come September and there's little that's going to happen between now and then that is ultimately going to change that fact.

A top four finish along with three of Wigan, Wire, Cats, Leeds and Hudds (though I think Wire will top the table). I also think Wire will be more dangerous in the play offs after last years major (but hilarious) disappointment from them.



The Grand Finalists will be from the same bunch, but with Cats and Hudds as outsiders to get there, once we're in the play offs anything can happen as I think all the teams I've listed will be able to beat each other on the day unless crippled with injuries. I thought last years play offs gave us some great games once we'd got rid of the chaff of the bottom three qualifiers and I think this years finals could be even better.

www.superleaguefans.com/st-helen ... eview.html There's a good write up here of the squad and expectations.

www.superleaguefans.com/st-helen ... eview.html There's a good write up here of the squad and expectations.

Any idea who wrote that? Couldn't find a name.

Not a clue, sorry.

Extrapolating from one result, ie Leeds last year is not really very statistically safe.



Also it's not so easy to pick up form as and when you feel like it. Hence why alot of the playoff matches were non-events. It's not something you can turn on and off at will. A run of losses hits confidence of both players and coaches as well as fans. If you look at Leeds last year. Brain Mac was hardly rubbing his hands together thinking it was all going to plan.



It's like saying home games give you no advantage it's just a piece of grass, yet the facts don't really tally with that theory as home advantage gives you all those intangeble factors such as the support, the swaying of the ref, just the psychological knowledge of playing at home can turn a game or the players attitude.



If someone from outside the top 3 wins it in the next 5 years I'd be very surprised.

I'll say it again - the best team in the best form and with the fewest injuries at the time will win at O/T this season, irrespective of where they finish in the league table.



The basic laws of nature mean that such a team is most likely to win lots of games over the course of a season and so finish high in the table. So the team that wins at O/T is certainly more likely to have finished in the top 2 than in other position. But that does not mean that a top 2 finish in and of itself gives the teams finishing in those positions any significant advantage - it does not. Home advantage through the playoffs is of much less advantage to any team than simply be playing better than the opposition at that moment in time. Leeds would have won at O/T last season even if they'd finished the league in 8th position. Wigan would likewise have done the same had they finished 8th the season before. Their position in the league did not contribute to their trophy wins - the fact that they were the best teams in the best form at the time were in fact the reason.



The fact is that chasing a high league placing is self-defeating and counter productive in modern SL. The way to maximise chances of success in the playoffs these days is to rotate and rest senior players as much as possible over the first 15 to 20 or so league games, scratching and scraping just enough wins along the way to stay in vague contention, and then getting all the then nicely rested senior players together to get on a roll and build form/confidence/understanding over the last 8 or so league games. Let's face it, that's exactly what both Saints and Leeds did last season (even if unintentionally) and look where it got them. The poor saps at Wigan and Warrington who played well consistently throughout the season and fought out top spot between them while us and the Loiners languished in mediocrity ultimately had nothing left to challenge us with come the playoffs. I would argue that an injury crisis over the first 2/3rds of a season is actually of major advantage to a top team now for this very reason - check out Saints and Leeds last year yet again.



I will actually be worried and highly concerned if we start the season well and look good against London and Salford - I was a little relieved to see how awful we looked against Widnes frankly as it shows (hopefully) that we're saving the timing of our form for much later in the season for when it matters. I hope to see us in 6th or 7th in May and struggling badly for form with the likes of Roby, Shenton, Lance, TP, Wilkin etc. only intermittently available with medium term (but non-serious) injuries as this will leave us in the best possible shape come end of season. Nothing would be more harmful to our championship chances than making a flying start and ending up top 6 points clear half way through the season instead.



All of this is, of course, self evident madness of the very highest order. Superleague is becoming a sick joke and I just don't know how much longer I can keep any interest in it going at all in all honesty.

I think that is a very good summary.



From a Wigan pov the loss of Hoffman can be offset with the return of Hock (a better attacker, but not as good a defender). Coley is easily replaced by Fielden.

The signings of Luaki (sp), Flower, and Dudson plus two really good young props in Spencer and Crosby means that the pack is actually stronger in depth.

IF we can get Roberts fit then the backs should also be o.k but I would like another centre.

Fielden for Coley ?



Since when?

bare minimum expectation for me is a top 4 finish.



However i am confident we will sweep the board and win the lot.



I just look at the opposition and only Wire and Catalan look like having well balanced teams, however i wonder if all those aging legs at Wire will betray them, as they did last season, and if Catalan can translate home form into away consistency.



The pies look very short in the pack. They have lost their two best back rowers in Tomkins and Hoffman, along with their most consistent prop in Coley.

It says a lot that they are keeping their fingers crossed that Fielden and Hock can perform, neither has hit any sort of form for a number of years.

Guy the Gorilla is also an unknown in the coaching department at this level. They will rely very heavily on tomkins getting them out of trouble. If he goes down injured for any length of time, they could be in for an ordinary season by their fans expectations



Leeds have the big game experience, with some very exciting young threequarters, however Peacock, sir Kevin, Mcguire, and Burrows are either in or fast approaching the veteran stage of their careers. Do Leeds have anyone coming through their youth sides with the talent to replace them?

For most of last season Leeds looked like a side in transition. I think 2011 for Leeds will turnout a bit like 2006 for Saints, in that it was in reality the last great hurrah of legends, the following years being ones of occasional success but mainly living life as bridesmaids while a new team is built to challenge the position of top dog.



Huddersfield, they will be the best of the rest. Being capable of upsetting the top dogs but lacking that little bit extra to win battles when it really matters.



The rest are all lambs to the slaughter.

Up to last year Fielden was one of the most durable forwards in the game. Just lok at his stats v Coley over the last five years.

Missed my point though



You're saying he's a replacement when they both played in the same side last year?

Fielden played half a game v Bradford and Coley was sub, that's the only time they were in the same side.

I think this is our year

I think Wigan will be weaker this year as most rugby pundits and fans do. The loss of maguire is huge IMO and bigger than our loss of graham.



I don't think glass jaw will get anywhere near the form he's showed and not a good replacement for coley, coley was a a strong, consistent durable prop which fielden ain't.



The new signings you've mad will make or break your season IMO. Lauaki was a poor mans feka at hull but both Dudson and flower have potential to be decent players and the idiot centre looks like he might not be in super league long.



I'm not writing Wigan off, I just feel they are weaker this year but would bet against them wining trophys this year as i think it's the most open super league for years with saints, Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Catalan and hudds a capable of wining the grand final.

For the last few years Wigan have been a fairly humdrum squad with a few superstar players who've maximised what they have through brilliant coaching and "tactics". They look even more humdrum now having lost so many important players who've been replaced with relative mediocrity, and the new coach will need to be a genius for them to get even near what they've achieved under Maggie. I think Wigan will be doing very well to finish in the top 4 this season.

So normal service resumed then. As it was under Milward and Noble.

We can only hope

They'll still be dangerous when push comes to shove, but ultimately it's hard to see them having enough quality to be able to beat the likes of us, Leeds, Warrington and Catalans come the crunch all things being equal. There are probably more variables in the equation among all the top clubs than there's ever been before this season though, so who knows? They might get lucky

The only arena in which Fielden would be a decent replacement for Coley is Scrabble. In fact, he's still worth the same in that so even there the best he is the same lol.

.....What's that all about?



There was two reasons we failed last year in the play-offs, and that was the exact same reasons that you lot lost to Leeds in the final.....We both came up against an in-form Leeds side and in the decisive matches, we both lost important players which helped to swing both games Leeds's way.



The 'aging legs' were not a factor at all.....We went well for most of the season, destroying most sides by big scores....In our penultmate match we nilled the Giants, while putting close to 50 on them, so I don't think the legs were too bad at that stage of things?



As for this year?.....I actually fancy Saints to top the table and be there or thereabouts for the trophies.....As for Wire?...I think that Tony Smith will learn from last season and will 'pick' his games more and aim for the Challenge Cup and Play-offs more specifically....We have a few youngsters who will see more game time, keeping those 'aging legs' as fresh as possible - Our squad depth will surprise a few neutrals this year.



Oh, and Trent Waterhouse will win Man of Steel....

Any Rugby League fan especially a Saints fan must know its not a smart move to write Leeds off!



You say that the Leeds team is getting old but yet you also say that wire will be your main challengers. Warrington have an older squad than leeds, including key players such as Briers,Morley,Monnaghan,Hodgson, Westwood and Waterhouse who are all the wrong side of 30! At the moment we dont have anybody in line to replace JP but props generally hit there peak much later than other positions. We have a young lad called Stevie Ward who is gunna be a class act, we signed Jack Briscoe who is next in line for the halves. We dont have to replace any of the back 5 with BJB in line for the FB spot. We might be as young as some but we aint the dinosaurs most think we are

And the band kept on playing as the titanic went down...

Anyone been fishing recently?????

It's good to see yours posts are smaller this year. I will actually read the full post now